Discussion on mixing, acoustics, stage setup, etc. | Talks

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sabufrancis 20 months ago
ActivityRank: 38

Hi
This thread has been started to discuss how we can achieve good results for M.L.U events.

We were thinking of the following arrangement (I am recollecting memory so pls correct me if I got something wrong)
Drums: 2 mics for cymbals, one for snare, one for bass (ideally a special bassdrum mic). These four mics will go directly into the house mixer
Lead Guitar: There will be a lead amp available for all groups (B3 brand). It will be miked separately into the house mixer. The reason is that the musician playing the lead would get the chance to get the sound from this amp to his liking. The mic will then capture the entire sound coming out from the amp, and it will get routed to the house mixer with all the effects you had set
Bass Guitar: A separate bass amp would be available for all groups (B3 brand) It will NOT be miked separately. Instead a cable will go from the lineout of this amp into the house mixer
Keyboards: A separate keyboard amp would be available for all groups (provided by Rolins). It will not be miked separately. Instead a cable will go from the lineout of this amp into the house mixer
We are also trying to get an instrument amp for the rhythm guitar. If we get it, we'll be miking it just like the lead guitar amp. If we cant get it, then the lineout from the effects pedal of the rhythm guitar would be used to bring in the sound into the house mixer.

Two more mics will be available from the auditorium provider for vocals. We would also come with a couple or so of our own mics

All the stage performance amps (one bass guitar amp, one lead guitar amp and one keyboard, and if available, the rhythm guitar amp) is usually put behind the performer. So that the performer can hear his own instrument clearly. However, there will be two stage monitors (provided by the auditorium people) in front of the performers which capture (in mono) all the sounds of ALL the instruments together.

When the audience is very few in number, stage monitor and house speakers are absent. Instead the instrument amps themselves act as thhe major sound provider and the audience hears the sounds directly from them. When this is the arrangement, there is a tendency for the musicians to crank up the volume of the sound of their respective instruments. This sometimes leads to a race situation: One musician increases the volume of his amp. The next guy wants to outdo him (because he has been drowned out), so he ends up increasing his instrument's volume, and so on.... This often leads to a lot of waste of time and other conflicts.

For larger audiences, we cannot depend on the instrument amps kept on stage.

Ideally, the instrument amps should be kept only that much loud so that the immediate musician concerned with that instrument hears himself. (I think for bass guitar, one can crank it up a bit... let me check this) However, the musician also needs to hear the entire group itself. That sound is provided by the stage monitors. Each of the two stage monitor will have the ENTIRE sound of the band in it. So everyone on stage hears everyone else.

One more reason for the instrument amps kept low is that they can give feedback through the vocal and drum mics. The drummer is one chap who can be so loud that the often may not hear the others, even with the stage monitors. So placement of the stage monitors is critical for everyone on stage.

During the M.L.U event, we will be setting up the stage and doing the initial balancing of the sound. During that period I request that nobody should come on stage and disturb the proceedings. As noted above, we are providing many of the instrument stage amps. B3 amps are of excellent quality and we strongly suggest that you should not bring in your own instrument amp. (Bring your effects and cables though) Unless of course you have more than one lead guitar or other unusual arrangements. Remember that if you bring in too many stuff, it will eat into the time alotted to you.

All this is what I have learnt over the years, starting with my experience in various performance when I was studying at IIT Kharagpur, and my knowledge in acoustics as an architect. I'll update this knowledge before this event and I invite others to make their suggestions and provide web-links in this thread.

Here is a good page to start: http://www.lenardaudio.com/education/08_live.html explaining the history of various kinds of stage arrangements

Regards
Sabu Francis

ansar1313 20 months ago
ActivityRank: 14

Hi,

Most of the methods mentioned above are ideal for a good sound....

One request to all the guitarists participating/performing is to set up you patches correctly on your processors..Most of the time it has been observed that the performers have too much bass and too much gain on their effect units, this may be fine at low volume situations like performing in your bedrooms but, it doesn't work out live...

Too much bass in your patch clashes with Bass guitar and Bass Drum and this makes the sounds unclear/muddy...

Too much Gain starts giving you unwanted feedbacks...Remember heaviness in your playing does not entirely come from Gain, it comes from your playing dynamics... SO keep you gain on the processor only to levels where it works for you, nothing excessive...

Also putting too much Re-verb/Delay/Chorus has to be avoided...at large venues, sound becomes very unclear and we may not have too much time to do sound Set-up for bands...

SO if you jam with your band with lot of Re-verb/Delay and other ambient effects, make another patch with much lesser re-verb/delay mix or take it out completely and try it out on stage when your original patch doesn't work well...The auditorium has a lot of Reverb of itself, so you may not even need any...

Please carry your guitar well tuned and strung with new strings and enough cables so that you don't have to run around asking for them...Also having a backup cable is not a bad idea, as most of the times cables do not work when you expect them to...

All Bass guitarists please tune up well and carry your own cable too which you'll plug into the amp, or Direct...

Drummers using Double-Bass pedals make sure you talk to people setting up sound on stage, which will include me too...so that we can arrange for a quick change of pedals without eating up too much time...same goes for Left handed Drummers, we can't have your band play in the middle as it is more convenient to start off with Left-handed setup and then switch over to right handed setup..or start right handed and have the kit changed to left-handed setup at the end...which will be decided on the day of the gig...But please inform us if your band has a Left-handed drummer.

Keyboard players will get to connect to a Keyboard amp on stage.

There will be two Vocal mics, if any more mics are required for vocals please post it up here we'll see what we can do about it..

Any Suggestions/Doubts are welcome...please post them here...

Thank You

Mohamed Ansar

Arun Mohan 19 months ago
ActivityRank: 474

THESE ARE THE DETAILS OF THE DRUMKIT THAT IS BEING PROVIDED FOR THIS EVENT:
- IT'S A 5-PIECE MAPEX DRUMKIT, WITH:
- 1 BASS DRUM
- 1 SNARE DRUM
- 2 TOMS
- 1 FLOOR TOM (TENOR DRUM)
- 1 HI-HAT (PAIR)
- 1 CRASH CYMBAL
- 1 RIDE CYMBAL
- ACCESSORIES:
- 1 SPIDER STAND (SNARE DRUM)
- 2 CYMBAL STANDS
- 1 HI-HAT STAND W/ PEDAL
- 1 SINGLE BASS DRUM PEDAL
- 1 THRONE

DRUMMERS ARE REQUESTED TO CARRY YOUR OWN PAIR OF DRUMSTICKS AND ALSO YOUR OWN DOUBLE BASS PEDALS (IF REQUIRED)... THESE WILL NOT BE PROVIDED ON STAGE...

NOTE TO ALL LEFTY DRUMMERS: SINCE YOUR SETUP WILL TAKE UP A LOT OF YOUR AND OTHER PERFORMERS' STAGE TIME, PLEASE DO INFORM US IN ADVANCE, SO THAT WE CAN EITHER PLACE YOUR SLOT AT THE START OR THE END OF THE PERFORMANCE SESSION... THIS WAY WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO WASTE TIME CHANGING THE SETUP FOR A RIGHTY DRUMMER IN THE MIDDLE OF THE EVENT...(ASSUMING THAT MOST DRUMMERS ARE RIGHT HANDED)... CHEERS!!!